Author: thestud

Changing China: the evolving Chinese dialects [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 4

Post time 2005-4-15 20:21:56 |Display all floors

greendragon, you may learn more about the history of different groups but u have

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Wow! the hakka's from Singapore is really edgy today!
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Wow! I am deeply impressed by your imagination. :)

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will you mountain folks behave like decent human beings. The whole world out there is not about "constant fights" on d!&) sizes.
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It would be highly appreciated if you brush your teeth before you open your mouth. Decent human being does not speak in your way. :)

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Who cares if you are saying that you are Teochew, hokkien, Cantonese, Wu, Beijing or whatever......
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Cantonese, Wu and Beijinger are added to your list of hatred? Tell me, poor doggie, why do you hate Chinese people so much? Maybe you have been defeated by Chinese people like Teochew, hokkien, Cantonese, Wu or Beijing people in your real-life competition? :)

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It is the puerile attempts, like the Jews to try to do a ONE UP MANSHIP and to do it with contempt from the rest. The use of black art and wanton hurt of innocents will not be tolerated in the New Middle Kingdom.
Even if you are really a Teochew person, it does not make it any smarter to talk about D!&) sizes, hakka pride.......there is nobody in this world who will think hakka are bad people except the hakka people themselves.
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Again, “d!&)” spews out of your mouth. You have to calm down and watch your manner. At least respect yourself while you smear Teochew people. :)

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My brother married a hakka gal because he think they make good wives.......
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How could we expect a uneducated person, who does not even pay due respect to his family member, to speak anything good?:)

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so what's the big nonsense about D!&) SIZE COMPARISON. It is same with Jew in America and Europe. The small size, big nose, curly hair people are a nuisance, keep on taunting the rest on how special their D!&) IS. That's why they got their halocaust
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You prove yourself to be a racist. :)

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Don't take this stupid route for the sake of your children.!
Do the FACTS, people will READ IT. Do MANIPULATIONS, people will mock you! This is China, not a two bit TYRANT STATE CALLED SINGAPORE!
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It’s good that muddleheaded greendragon finally came to realize that this is a Chinese forum in China. Manipulations? Are you kidding me? There is no conspiracy here~~~

:)

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Post time 2005-4-15 20:33:05 |Display all floors

So strange, isn't Mandarin the language of the Mandarins - the bureaucrats...

.....my cousin could speak it well, including the northern twirl of the tonque.......sound like there might be a campaign to push for GROUP SPEAK....EVEN in United Kingdom they have many dialects.....

Isn't the Mandarinate the "protection" for a unified China?

The dialects helps to ensure no province will be left behind....allow for group protect instincts......out of province workers in Guandong bring back the know hows of the business back to their province. It is already happening now.......just observe....and wages in Guandong, like in Shanghai or Beijing will rise...a result of the dialects...

English is an international language, so would be Mandarin....you could speak it in the whole of China and be understood. But the dialects give regional solidarity to compete with the rest....which is more advanced by the luck of geography etc. etc. etc.......

Don't make this into a political issue. We all learn Mandarin as well all learn English for politics and business but we keep our own dialects to retain uniqueness.....for regional protection.

How silly, even Malays in Malaysia knows it, they learn their Malays, but they also learn English, Mandarin and some learn Cantonese - since it is one of the major dialect in the Middle Kingdom. (learn Hakka, if you want to do timber or minereal biz but i guess Mandarin or English will be fine there!)

cheerios!

Game Master

Lord of the Code

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Post time 2005-4-15 20:45:32 |Display all floors

ha ha ha ha Now i am a Chinese hater....ha ha ha ha ha

boy, this is going to be fun!

Just continue your stories about the dialects,  no under the belt hits! okay!

I couldn't care less if you speak Teochew, Hakka, Cantonese etc. etc. or Wu, Beijing dialect etc. etc. - i was amazed that my Mandarin could not be understood at all in inner mongolia....even my brother said it is very difficult to understand the dialects of all the people in China...

China ..is just to vast. The only thing that hold China together in the Bureacracy! Simple as that! and Pride of the Chinese culture! and the concept of MODERATION!, SHARING!

Just continue with your STORY ON DIALECT, we are all ears to listen to your version! If you want, you can print a book and call it a BIBLE, so we all believe that it is the only version!

Cheerios!

Just make sure we listen to facts, and opinions. We beg to differ if we think its ridiculous. Don't talk to me about courtesy here, i know when to use it and when no to use it!

Game Master

Lord of the code.

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Post time 2005-4-15 20:54:52 |Display all floors

Greendragon, read my post carefully before you come to any allegation. :)

daydreamer66
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2005-02-22
Thank you cogito:)
I have checked "Hakka Chinese Forum at Asiawind" in your recommended website. Maybe I can invite some of the forumists there to come and share their opinion on their native dialect here:)

There is a post at Asiawind titled "How to surive our languange and preserve our culture ". By "our language", they mean Hakka.
For the past decades, Chinese people are not encouraged to move from one place to another probably due to the Hukou management. Population immobility could have contributed to the independent development of various dialects. In recent years, market development has required not only the mobility of commodities and capital, but also of labors or talents. For this reason, I think it is in vain to call for the preservation of any specific dialect.

After all, "one country one language" is beneficial to the unification of China.


2005-04-15 11:05

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Post time 2005-4-15 21:03:41 |Display all floors

greendragon

A wrong would not be right by just deleting my post.
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I think the mod deleted your post not because you are right or I am right or anybody is wrong, but because you use some inappropriate words, which you know what I mean.

You have misunderstood daydreamer66, cytheria and thestud. Right, we  are here to share diversified cultures including dialects. No biting or cursing is encouraged.

Come on! Share us with your opinion on dialects or languages if you have any.

:)

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Post time 2005-4-15 21:10:46 |Display all floors

Greendragon,

Your personal hatred is allowed here as a menial matter to satisfy your river ego.

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Post time 2005-4-15 23:54:53 |Display all floors

Cytheria and daydreamer66

(from http://www.answers.com/topic/teochew)
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Teochew (dialect)

The Teochew dialect ( Guangdong romanization: Dio7 Ziu1 Missionary romanization: Diô-jiǔ-oē, Chinese:潮州话, Hanyu Pinyin: Cháozhōuhuà, Teochiu or Tiuchiu), is a Chinese language and dialect of Minnan spoken in a region of eastern Guangdong refered to as Chaoshan.

Classification

Teochew is a member of Southern Min group, one of the divisions of spoken Chinese. Like other varieties of Chinese, there is dispute as to whether Teochew is a language or a dialect.

Teochew is mutally intelligible with the other Min-nan languages, notably Xiamen dialect or Taiwanese. There is substantial variations in phonology and vocabulary between different regions of Chaoshan and between different Teochiu communities overseas.

History And Geography

Modern Teochew evolved from the more archaic Min-Nan. Between the 9th and the 15th century, a group of Min people migrated south from Fujian to the coastal region of eastern Guangdong known as Chaoshan. This migration was most likely due in part to over-population in Fujian.

Geographical isolation from Fujian and influences from Cantonese and the later Hakka, Teochew evolved into a separate language.

The Chaoshan region where Teochew is spoken, includes the cities of Chaozhou, Shantou, Jieyang, Chaoyang, Puning, Chao'an, Raoping, Huilai and Shanwei.

Chaoshan was one of the major sources of Chinese emigration to Southeast Asia during the 18th-20th century forming one of the larger dialect groups among the Overseas Chinese. As a result, Teochew is now spoken in many regions outside of Chaoshan.

In particular, the Teochew people settled in significant numbers in Thailand and Cambodia where they form the largest Chinese dialect group. They constitute a significant minority in Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Teochew speakers also live in Australia, New Zealand, North America, and Europe; a result of both direct emigration from Chaoshan to these nations and secondary emigration from Southeast Asia.

Phonology

Syllables in Teochiu contain an initial consonant, a vowel, and a final consonant.

Initial consonants of Teochiu, are represented in the Guangdong Peng'im system as: B, BH, C, D, G, GH, H, K, L, M, N, NG, P, R, S, T, and Z.

Examples:

B - bak (北 north)
Bh- bhê (马 horse)
C - cên (青 green)
D - dio (潮 tide)
G - gio (桥 bridge)
GH- gho (鹅 goose)
H - hung (云 cloud)
K - ke (走 to go)
L - lag (六 six)
M - mêng (明 bright)
N - nang (人 person)
NG - ngou (五 five)
P - peng (平 peace)
R - ruah (热 hot)
S - sên (生 to be born)
T - tin (天 heaven)
Z - ziu (州 region/state)

Vowels and vowel combinations in the Chaozhou dialect include: A, E, Ê, I, O, U, AI, AO, IA, IO, IU, OI, OU, UA, UAI, UE, and UI.

Examples:

A - ma (妈 mother)
E - de (箸 chopsticks)
Ê - sên (生 to be born)
I - bhi (味 smell/taste)
O - to (桃 peach)
U - ghu (牛 cow)

Ending consonants in Teochiu include M and NG as well as the stops discussed below.

Examples:

M - giam (盐 salt)
NG - bhuang (万 ten thousand)

Teochiu retains many consonant stops lost in Mandarin. These stops include a labial stop: "b"; velar stop: "g"; and glottal stop: "h".

Examples:

B - jab (十 ten)
G - hog (福 happiness)
H - tih (铁 iron)

Many words in Teochiu are nasalized which is represent by the letter "n" in the Guangdong Pengim system.

Example (nasalized):

suan ( mountain)
cên (青 green)

Tones

Teochew, like other Chinese languages is a tonal language. It has eight tones and extensive tone sandhi.

Tones:

Middle level
Falling
Low rising
Low stop
High level
High rising
Low level
High stop
Here, the tones are shown following the traditional tone class categorization above, and are correlated with the tones of Middle Chinese (shown in Han characters, last column below):

33; yin level (陰平)
52; rising (上聲)
12; yin departing (陰去)
1; yin entering (陰入)
24; yang level (陽平)
35; declining (下聲)
11; yang departing (陽去)
5; yang entering (陽入)

Vocabulary

Teochew was written with proper Chinese characters. About 90% of the words they used are found in Standard Chinese characters, although 10% of the words were coined out by the Teochew themselves. There are even Chinese words that existed and were used in Mandarin but not in Teochew. Like most Min-nan dialects, most Teochew words have cognates with other Chinese dialects, especially with Min-nan dialects.

Grammar

The grammar of Teochew is similar to southern Chinese dialects, especially with Hakka and Cantonese. The sequence 'subject verb object' is typical as in (mutually) Mandarin, although 'subject object verb' or the passive voice (with the sequence 'object subject verb') is possible with particles.

Script and orthographies

Traditionally, Teochew was written with traditional Chinese characters, although a small fraction of the words were coined out by the Teochew themselves.

An romanization system exist in Guangdong province to represent Teochew pronounciation for linguistic study and dictionaries, although the Taiwanese Pe̍h-oē-jī could be used, owing to the fact that the Christian missionaries adapt it to be suitably used for all Min-nan dialects (except Qiong Wen).

A modified version of the Guangdong romanization system is used and promoted by the Teochew organization GagiNang (see External links below) for educational purposes and as a writing system for everyday communication in Teochew. (See external links)
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